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:zz: *Browser window interface / objectives / main needs
- To: zzdev@xxxxxxxxxx
- Subject: :zz: *Browser window interface / objectives / main needs
- From: Ted Nelson <ted@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:22:24 +0900
- Cc: ted@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- In-reply-to: <000301bdf5f0$bedaac00$796064a7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- References: <220.127.116.11.19981012230515.0117ee10@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Reply-to: zzdev@xxxxxxxxxx
Hi. Don't have time to reply to your whole thing.
The idea is this: Local ZigZag talks to local browser
in an unchanging-size window showing current view
No use for mouse. Just present keys.
The plans for the system are extensive, and go far
beyond brick mode, but we have almost zero resources.
And the greatest problem is all the wonderful programmer
initiatives that go off in different directions. If this were
a subsidized university project we could do all these things.
I want to get the product to a usable form as--
a new kind of interface for unix/linux;
a new kind of graphical interface (beyond brick mode);
a new kind of generalized environment (no applications);
a personal system for all my own record-keeping and writing
(see, with a live-- and motivated-- user base, we can get
The thing is still hovering at semi-usability.
After Mac and PC interfaces, the next major step
is a portable data structure which keeps all the text
in one scroll and uses it referentially.
After Perl, I have in mind to go to Metrowerks.
The first commercial platforms shd be PC and Palm Pilot,
both of which can be gone to straight from Metrowerks.
If you're interested in the to-do list, it's back there someplace.
About fifty major additions.
You probably have the recent specs for the easy brick mode
:zz: EASY/DORKY WAY TO GET UP ON ALL MACHINES
At 09:58 AM 10/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Ted Nelson Said:
>>Actually, the current plan is to "port" merely by
>> outputting our brick-mode windows (what you see now)
>> to Netscape. This is our highest priority.
>Hmm, how would files be saved and such? I can sorta of visualize what you
>mean, but it seems like it might be kind of clunky and slow. That would
>still be better than nothing I guess.
>As I stated earlier in my "zigzag on windows" message, the biggest problem I
>had was getting the DB_FILE package working. I tried it again briefly with
>0.54, I get a different message than before but it still doesn't work
>leading me to believe something of what I did was wrong. Also I think the
>curses package was a problem. I commented out the 'tie db' to see if the
>rest would work but it didn't, I attributed it to the fact that the database
>needs to be there to function at all. The screen display was all screwed up
>and I could sort of navigate but nothing useful(besides the obvious fact
>that it would be only an in-memory edit, which if you've been following my
>message is all that I have now..) I guess my point is that I would think
>that these problems would also be present in the browser version unless you
>stripped the curses and DB_FILE package, viz. A plain vanilla perl version.
>If it helps the ActiveState port includes the ability to have
>'perl-script'and there is also a version that comes with a Microsoft Kit
>that also has this ability.
>As I was re-reading that it occurred to me that I'm talking about zigzag
>running on my system, you weren't referring to a version that ran on the
>server-side where you? Hmm, that would certainly be different.
>I guess in my head I'm approaching the port in a different manner. I was
>thinking of a more native windows application. (thought shift)Another
>thought I had was to implement it as a File Viewer like they do for
>zip/tar/gzip etc. files in certain 'explorer-like' programs and as explorer
>extensions. This would be neat in that it could function as the sought
>after file-system replacement product, or at least bring it closer. You
>could also do a 'zigzag drive' file system component much like they now have
>for treating a tape drive as a virtual drive.
>I think one issue in the whole windows thing you need to consider is, how to
>use the mouse. I can think of a number of ways to use it but I think the
>most basic would be to support clicking on items to navigate. I happen to
>use a track-ball that has 4 buttons on it that could also be put to good
>use. Another add-on is the new -thumb wheel on new mice. You could even
>support a joystick. That would be neat, especially with all the additional
>buttons and such they usually have.
>A straight Perl port would also be a good first step. A turn key of all the
>binaries you need would really help.
>Ted Nelson also asked:
>(Mark, do you do Perl?)
>No, I'm a Visual C++ and Visual Basic programmer.
Theodor Holm Nelson, Visiting Professor of Environmental Information
Keio University, Shonan Fujisawa Campus, Fujisawa, Japan
Home Fax from USA: 011-81-466-46-7368 (If in Japan, 0466-46-7368)
Professorial home page http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/
Permanent: Project Xanadu, 3020 Bridgeway #295, Sausalito CA 94965
Tel. 415/ 331-4422, fax 415/332-0136
PERMANENT E-MAIL: ted@xxxxxxxxxx
Quotation of the day, 98.10.11:
"Life really IS an amusement park. The choices are agonizing, you don't
have enough money, you'll have to leave soon, and mostly you're standing in
line for short rides." TN98